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| " + SliceArray[SliceArrayIndex - (x + 1)].subject + " | \n"; fred += "" + SliceArray[SliceArrayIndex - (x+1)].display + " |
Hi, I've just started metal detecting around the Atherton area, could you suggest any good places to go and rules I have to follow.
I have sent you a picture of a fragment of something either brass or bronze, which looks like it has been cast on the other side of the grooves shown. The fragment looks old, it is heavy and strong. I found it where nobody has been for years. Please e mail me back with info.
", "![](\"../../images/Q_and_A/Found_in_Atherton_small.jpg\")
This looks a bit weird - I can't identify it. Best thing is to send a picture (by the way it's best to have a ruler next to it for scale) to Nick Herepath who is the Finds Liaison officer for our area. He's bases in Liverpool and his E-mail is nick.herepath@liverpoolmuseums.org.uk
A good source of advise for using a metal detector is www.finds.org.uk also the CBA's website (Council for British Archaeology) www.britarch.ac.uk/detecting/index.html
Freshly ploughed fields are usually best but you need to ask permission from the farmer first. (It's also a good idea to agree a percentage split if you do find anything of value otherwise he could claim it all.) If you do find anything of value you most report it as soon as possible so that you get the full market value for it (if it is deemed as Treasure).
"); setSlice ("Walled Wigan", "Recently I've been thinking that the town used to be walled, with names like 'Standishgate' and 'Wallgate'. Do you know if this is correct and if so where the walls were?", "I'm a keen amateur historian, mainly interested in the Edward I period, I also like all aspects of local history. Recently I've been thinking that the town used to be walled, with names like 'Standishgate' and 'Wallgate'. Do you know if this is correct and if so where the walls were? Also could you tell me why the Roman ruins under the new shopping centre weren't given any press time so that the town could realise that its not just a Victorian coal town?", "
There are lots of theories about walls around Wigan town centre. There certainly must have been something around the town, as we know from historical references that the boundaries were very well defined. Chains barred the roads into the centre and if you were caught "harbouring a foreigner" (i.e. allowing a non-Wiganer to stay in town over night) you could be fined.
The 'gate' references do not help us here as this comes from the old Norse word 'Gata' meaning road. Wallgate is thought to come from Walach Gata or Welsh Road meaning the road to were the Welsh (or British) lived, having been driven out by the Anglo-Saxons. During the Civil War we also know that the Parliamentarian, Colonel Assherton pulled down the walls after sacking the the town. Sinclair, in his book on the Civil War in the Wigan area, actual shows these walls on a map, from what evidence he doesn't say.
In the 19th century the Rev Thompson Watkin, in his book on Roman Lancashire, reported seeing a bank and ditch all around the town. He thought it was Roman in origin, however, if it existed, it was more likely much later, either Medieval or from the Civil War period. Nothing of this or any other wall has ever been found in excavations recent or otherwise.
It was very upsetting to see the Roman remains appear then disappear so quickly without much press attention (despite our efforts to promote them). There was however a couple of open days (the second being well attended). The archaeologists were under tremendous pressure to complete the work in their allotted time (allotted by the developers who did give them an extra 6 weeks to finish).
"); setSlice ("Winstanley Hall", "I am doing a project ... on Winstanley Hall. I was wondering if you had any information that I would find useful on this subject.", "I am doing a project for the Billinge History Society on Winstanley Hall. I was wondering if you had any information that I would find useful on this subject. I was also wondering if the pre 1560 \"old moat\" site as ever been excavated or if there is any information about the Winstanley Family pre this date.", "
You are probably aware the site was sold by the Banks family a few years ago for private development. Work on refurbishment however has been held up because of problems with planning permission.
I have very little information about the history of this site except that the Winstanley's were Lords of the manor there as early as 1252 and were probably responsible for building the moat . There is evidence for 70 moated sites in the Greater Manchester borough, the majority of which are concentrated in Wigan and Ince area. These sites were usually built over a short period in the 14th century. As you probably know the Winstanley family built the present hall in 1560 before selling the estate to James Banks in 1596. The Banks family have, over the years, add to the original hall and kept it in good order until the 1960s when they moved out. Since then the hall has deteriorated but the cost of maintenance has been prohibitive - hence the sale. This is a very important site being one of only three Tudor buildings in the Wigan area, we believe care should be taken in planning its future. (We visited the site in 2002 - for details see our Newsletter No.53.)
Recently a descendent of the Banks family, who still owns most of the land, has renovated the nearby lodge for private dwelling. He also wants to develop the surrounding gardens which includes a huge green-house. As this backs onto the medieval moat, an archaeological assessment has had to be carried out. This work was recently completed by Matrix Archaeology from Manchester, the results of which I am hoping to get a copy of shortly. As far as I am aware, there has been no other excavation work carried out on the moat. As it is a scheduled monument permission would be need for any further work to be carried out.
"); setSlice ("Was Wigan Coccium", "I am trying to answer the question "what archaeological evidence is there to suggest that Wigan is the Roman town of Coccium?"", "I am studying A level archaeology and have to complete a piece of course-work on a local archaeological site that I can visit and research. I am trying to answer the question "what archaeological evidence is there to suggest that Wigan is the Roman town of Coccium?" Anything that you think would help would be most appreciated.", "
A good place to start is the Sites and Monuments Record for the area around Wigan (it is kept by the Greater Manchester Archaeological Unit -GMAU). You will see there are a more than average number of entries for the Roman period, particularly in the centre with coins and shards of pottery and even a Roman altar (embedded in the Parish Church window). These, however, are only 'chance' finds and do not prove that there was a settlement here, although the likelihood is very strong. The first certain evidence of Roman activity in Wigan, came from excavations carried out in the Wiend in the early 80's by the GMAU (a report on the findings can be found in their Annual Journal for 1984 - if you contact Norman Redhead - he should be able to send you a copy). More recently, spectacular remains of a Roman bathhouse was discovered last year in excavations in Millgate. The excavations were carried out in advance of development for the new Grand Arch shopping centre. The report for this has not been completed yet but you can get more details from our Newsletters No.82 and No.84.
All this, however, still does not prove the case for Wigan as Coccium. However, our society has examined the Roman Roads in the Wigan area, excavating both roads leading north towards Standish and east to towards Manchester (for further details visit our Projects page). The proof that these roads existed, confirms to us that a route existed between Manchester and Ribchester with Wigan in the middle, which conforms with the listing of Coccium in the Antonine Itinerary. (This 3rd century document says Coccium lay 17 (Roman) miles from Manchester and 20 miles from Ribchester.) When consider together with all the other evidence, there can be little doubt that Wigan was indeed the Roman town Coccium.
"); setSlice ("Ancient Battle site", "I wondered if you had any details on the below ancient battle site in Wigan. If you have any info can you e-mail it to me?", "I wondered if you had any details on the below ancient battle site in Wigan. If you have any info can you e-mail it to me - cheers
NMR Number: SD 50 NE 28
COUNTY: Greater Manchester
DISTRICT: Wigan
PARISH: Wigan
Medieval Battlefield 1060 - 1070
Medieval Human Remains 1060 - 1070
Possible Medieval battle site indicated by human and horse remains located in 1735. The presence of so much horse suggests a date about the time of the Conquest, possibly the Norman ravishing of the North or a slightly earlier event.
You can find a reference to this battle in a book by C. Hardwick called 'Ancient Battlefields of Lancashire' published in 1882. In it Hardwick quotes the Reverend Whitaker, writing a hundred years earlier, who is trying to prove that King Arthur fought some of his battles in the Wigan area. Whitaker points to the fact that the Anglo-Saxon chronicler, Nenius, does actually say that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th of Arthur's battles were fought on the banks of the Douglas. Here is the the relevant passage from Hardwick's book:
The defeated Saxons appear to have crossed the hill at Wigan, where another engagement took place. In forming the canal there about 1735, the workmen discovered evident indications of a considerable battle on the the ground. All along the course of the channel, from the termination of the dock to the point at Poolbridge from 40 to 50 roods in length and 7 to 8 yards in breadth, they found the ground everywhere containing the remains of men and horses, and 5 to 6 cwts, of horse shoes were collected.
The text goes on to describe one of the large spurs found there but others have pointed out that his description is more like a Norman spur than a Saxon one, so that is where the Norman date in the reference came from.
There is a corresponding reference in the Greater Manchester Sites and Monuments Record (No. 4197.1.0). This record gives the location as SD 5743 0515 which is roughly where Wigan Pier is now. The reference to the canal is misleading as the canal into Wigan was only completed in 1814. The river Douglas, however, was being canalised at about the time of Whitaker's report and it is likely that it was this work (probably the construction of the Wigan basin terminus) that is being referred to.
"); setSlice ("Further to "Was Wigan Coccium"", "I read, with interest, ... questions related to Wigan being on the site of ... Coccium. Your answer ... states that evidence of a Roman road between Manchester and Ribchester exists ... (but) Wigan is not in between Manchester and Ribchester.", "I read, with interest, your site and questions related to Wigan being on the site of the Roman settlement called Coccium. Your answer to one of the questions states that evidence of a Roman road between Manchester and Ribchester exists and that Wigan is in the middle of the two. Now then, anyone with half an eye knows, full well, that Wigan is not in between Manchester and Ribchester.
I have also read notes from other Roman texts which conclude that, without doubt, the position of the place called Coccium was, according to the Antonine Itinerery, somewhere around the Belmont area, so I am not convinced that Coccium was where Wigan is now. But, on saying this, I have no doubt that the Roman immigrants, at the time, set up camp in countless places all over England, Wigan, obviously, being one of these places.
", "It is true that, in the Itinerary states that Coccium lies somewhere between Ribchester and Manchester and for that reason many people believe that it must lie on the Roman Road which is known to exist in a straight line between these two places (the favoured location is Edgeworth but a site south of Affetside has also been suggested).![](\"../../images/Q_and_A/Coccium1_small.gif\")
The problem with this solution is that the distances given in the Itinerary are too large (20 Roman miles and 17 Roman Miles, which comes to 37, whereas the actual distance is more like 27 Roman miles). To add to this, as yet nothing has ever been found in these locations (despite intensive searching by Bolton Arch Soc and others).
It seems that the Romans liked to have their stations located not more than a days march from each other (roughly 20 Roman miles). The case for Wigan is that the distances given in the Itinerary, if you check on the map, are quite accurate (noting that a Roman mile is about 95% of a statute mile). Also the attraction of a diversion to Wigan is that you would avoid the higher, more difficult gradients encountered on the West Pennine route. (Admittedly a direct route between Wigan and Ribchester has yet to be found but recent researches indicate a distinct possibility that one existed.)
Other claims for Coccium are Blackrod and, very lately, Standish but I must admit I haven't heard of the Belmont claim (Belmont, like Wigan and these other places, is not on a direct line between Ribchester and Manchester). However, I would be very interested in reading the references you mention in support of the theory (I haven't seen anything myself in the Itinerary). The question of Coccium's location has been debated long and hard over the years and probably won't be resolved until somebody finds an actual inscription, in the mean time we can all have great fun speculating.
"); setSlice ("Old Bryn Hall", "I have been trying to find information about Old Bryn Hall, only to find very little. Has any excavation of the area ever been carried out?", "Hello, I have a keen interest in local history, and have been trying to find information about Old Bryn Hall, only to find very little. Has any excavation of the area ever been carried out? It would seem to be quite an important site in the heritage of Wigan, being the medieval seat of the Gerrard family. The site still can be observed as a scar in the ploughed fields........... Looking at the 1851 map of the area, it still shows there being a moat at the site. If not already excavated, are there any future plans to do so? I look forward to hearing any information......", "
As far as I am aware this site has never been excavated and, unless it becomes under threat, is unlikely to be in the near future. I agree it is an import site for the heritage of Wigan. In fact one of our members (Tony Bates) published an article about the site in our society journal in 1990 (eventually I intend publishing this on our website). In the meantime here is a short extract:
The only description available of Olde Brynne is in volume 2 of "Traditions of Lancashire" written by the Wigan born historian John Roby in 1820, listed under the chapter of "Dead Man's Hand". This Description is based on a manuscript collected by a Mr Barrett, a celebrated Manchester Antiquarian of 1780, (the original manuscripts cannot be traced at this stage)...
"Brynne Hall is an ancient seat of the Gerards and has been a good house, but it is now almost in ruins the venerable ivy rebelling without control on its mouldings walls. Within is a spacious courtyard, the approach to which is by means of a bridge over the moat which surrounds this fabric. The gatehouse is secured by very strong and large doors. Within the court is what has been a rich porch. The entrance into a spacious room called the Hall, on the Chimney Piece of which are the Arms of England in the reign of James I. Across one side of the Hall runs a railed gallery, on which persons might stand to see any entertainment below. This gallery is supported by double pillars in the front of pilasters, and forming arches bewixt each other under which persons may pass from one room to another. On these carved pillars and arches is abundance of rich carved work, but rotten with age and moisture... A popish priest resided here and above stairs is a Romish Chapel, still used by the neighbours. Here is kept in a white silkbag what they call Father Arrowsmiths Hand, who was put to death at Lancaster in the reign of William III as they same, for his religion."
The site is thought to date from the 14th century and the article goes on to say that until quite recently some stonework and rubble from the outer walls and base could still be seen… The central mound and moat could be clearly seen until Mr Baldwin of Landgate Farm, the landowner, reclaimed the site. He removed a quantity of stone blocks and rubble but found little of value... If we could get the present owner's permission it maybe possible for our society to excavate the site but we would need to argue a good case for a research project. The whole area around the site is of special archaeological importance as the Roman Road runs quite close by and just to the south is the site of a possible Pre-historic burial mound called Toot Hill (for more details [click here]).
"); setSlice ("Rivington Pike", "Whilst walking around Rivington Pike last summer I saw a beautifully black and white tiled floor which protruded from under the grass on top of winter hill, does anybody have any information about what was there?", "Whilst walking around Rivington Pike last summer I saw a beautifully black and white tiled floor which protruded from under the grass on top of winter hill, does anybody have any information about what was there?", "
This is a fascinating story (although not so long ago). The area you visited is the site of Lord Leverhulme's bungalow which was once burned down by a suffragette soon after it was built at the beginning of the last century. The grounds of the bungalow (Italian and Japanese gardens) were all his creation and he even had a replica of Liverpool castle built on the edge of the Rivington reservoirs (http://www.kroma.co.uk/liverpool-castle-ruins.asp ). Here also is a good website if you want to read more about this remarkable man http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Rivington/leverhulme.html. There are a few good books available with excellent pictures of the bungalow and grounds in their heyday. These are available in Smith's book shop in Mesnes Street, Wigan, but I sure they are also available in other books shops and probably the library in Bolton as well.
"); setSlice ("Haigh Hall", "I was attending a conference in Haigh Hall on recently, and was curious about the information on the display ..., which asserted that the present ... house was on the site of its predecessors.", "![](\"../../images/Q_and_A/Helibott_small.jpg\")
I was attending a conference in Haigh Hall on recently, and was curious about the information on the display on the half landing of the main stair, which asserted that the present 1830s/40s house was on the site of its predecessors. I was greatly puzzled by the depiction on the early 18th century view, which suggested a site further north. I asked in the offices at the house and was told there that it was thought to be further north, beyond the stables. After the conference I visited the shop in the stable block and bought the two views and the History of Haigh Hall. The lady in the shop said other people had suggested it was further north, but most people believed it was under the present house.
It is quite clear that the present house is on a terrace created for it. The south side of the house is on the line between cut-away ground and built out ground - the cutting and building out is clearly single phase and depends on the shoring up of the steep face behind the house. This was never the location of anything older than the present edifice.
However walking around, I observed that at SD 597089, in the field in the angle between School Lane and Copperas Lane, opposite the stables, a varied grid pattern of earthworks can be seen which equates to the layout of formal gardens (unless it equates to recent activity). There were no obvious ways into the field, and I was wearing a suit, so I limited my observations to vantage points from the road. There is a ditched round and part sunken rectangular area which probably extended under and south of School Lane, which might indicate the house site, and a causeway running ENE (if the leaflet map is north up) from the roadside, and parallel to School Lane in the next field, about 10-15 metres from the road, and other grid patterns at a distance. Looking at the purchased copy of the 18th century view this looks a feasible location of the house with the bends of School Lane onwards in the background, and meaningful topography. I know such views are often idealised but this one does suggest the view is intended to be from Haigh Tower/Summerhouse on the hill.
What is the official position, and has anyone considered the earthworks at SD597089 to be part of the original house and gardens?
", "You have a very interesting theory which I will endeavour to investigate further. As you say the general consensus is that the present Hall was built on the site of the original and there is certainly some evidence for an earlier building in the cellars of the present house. Donald Anderson and Tony France, who wrote the definitive histories of the Hall are quite convinced that the Hall site has never moved. However as you rightly point out early views of the Hall do not correspond to this. The formal garden layout, which is depicted in some early illustrations, is also difficult to resolve. I have spoken to the Park rangers about the fact that there is no evidence for the garden in its depicted location and their feeling is that this garden never existed. I will visit the site you mention and try to get back to you ASAP.
"); setSlice ("Samian Pottery", "I wonder if you could tell me what has happened to the Samian pottery found at the Roman mansio at Millgate.", "I wonder if you could tell me what has happened to the Samian pottery found at the Roman mansio at Millgate and would it be possible to include photos of it on the website in future, either individualy or part of a special feature showing the finds?", "
All the pottery from the excavations is still with Oxford Archaeology North who are still processing it. As it happens the society is close to publishing a special section on this website dedicated to the bathhouse excavations (by the way the current theory is that it wasn't a mansion). Hopefully we will be able to keep the section update with further developments as post processing continues.
"); setSlice ("Further Haigh Hall","Thanks for recent information ...While I accept the house was in the same location,...I think the footprint of the house was slightly north-west.","![](\"../../images/Q_and_A/Helibott2_small.jpg\")
Thanks for recent information - being the 1996 Archaeological Survey for the redevelopment of the golf course, from the GMAU; and an A3 sized extract from the 1796 Plan of Haigh Hall Estate and Arthur's History. The 1796 plan leaves me with the unavoidable conclusion that the house was on or close to its present location at the end of the 18th Century. There was an extract of this plan on the back of the archaeology report, but too local to the house; the larger extract enabled me to compare with modern maps and small scale air photo coverage (Getmapping Photographic Atlas of England).
While I accept the house was in the same location, depending on the planimetric accuracy of the 1796 Map and the topography, I think the footprint of the house was slightly north-west. I still contend the terrace and cutaway slope behind the house is 19th century. References to older cellars found would have to be near the west frontage, as what is likely to have happened is that the previous house was build on a smaller platform into the slope; the present house is built deeper into the slope on the east side. The west front is located at the outcrop of the pre-existing slope, anywhere further back has been excavated from the slope to an increasing degree eastwards.
The 1796 Map shows exactly the same layout as the Knyffe & Kip view of 1707. Both the map and the view suggest the house was standing on the general slope, not the massive terrace with backslope. Again that favours a slightly north-west of present location. Regarding claims that the garden design in 1707 never actually existed, the copy quality of the 1796 map sent to me ...shows all the detail. This point is picked up in the archaeology report page 5.
Returning to my observed earthworks in the angle of School Lane and Copperas Lane I would still appreciate someone following up on this. Several points might justify this. The three fields west of the hall, Senntour Hall Croft, Great Hall Croft and Hall Croft, while they relate to the hall on the east, relate to my earthworks on the north. The shape of Long Stone Low (or Land) on the east side of School Lane, which contains my earthworks was an unusual shape on the 1796 map, having a curved long profile and extending east of a linear boundary at Haigh School. On the small scale Getmapping air photo, there is a distinctive ridge or bank corresponding to this curved north boundary. I wondered if this could be part of the boundary of something larger, such as a deer park boundary, or a pre-medieval defensive enclosure. The name Long Stone Low and Rough Stone Low/Green Stone Low to north may be a reference to older remains here. I cannot make out clearly the name of the third west Hall Field but it looks like Senntour. Maybe there is a documented explanation for this name. I just wondered if the second syllable 'tour' refers to tower, and the other half Senn is sean - old or ancient. So although the earthworks I noted don't relate to the 18th century house, they might still be indicative of an earlier site. Thanks for bearing with my ramblings.
","I haven't seen the 1796 plan that you speak of but my doubts about the validity of the 1707 view of the Hall and formal gardens, stem from some of the features it depicts. The main access road, for instance, is shown entering from the southwest to join the road leading to the southeast entrance of the Hall at a small distance from it. This looks to be a substantial road which surely would have survived in on form or another, but there has never been any sign of an entrance to the Hall from this direction (even before the landscaping for the golf course).
I have also been looking at Donald Anderson's book "Life and Times at Haigh Hall" in which he describes in some detail the build and repair work carried on at the Hall over the centuries. There are 3 colour plates, a B & W print of a portrait painting and sketch all showing the Hall in its condition before the 19th century major rebuild. None of these match the view given on the 1707 which shows the Hall having three bays facing the formal garden. The southeast facia is also totally different. Reading the detail however, the Hall apparently had a partial rebuild in the 18th century after damage from mining subsidence. This gave it a brick frontage on that side. Later when the Earl came to do repairs in the early 19th century he noticed that the walling on the southeast face butted up to the southwest face. This suggests that this side originally extended much further, which could explain the 3rd bays shown on the 1707 view.
I agree with your observation that the Hall platform has been substantially increased. The paintings tend to confirm this but whether its position has shifted is unclear, but it does seem that the Hall lost a substantial section on the southeast side at some time. The only view showing anything of the formal garden is the B & W portrait painting which shows the 4th Baronet with his wife and dog. The Hall in the background and the painting also shows terracing, walls and even a boating lake. There is reason to believe that this painting is accurate as detail of the old build behind the Hall matches the detail on a later painting (an elevated bay supported on two pillars). I am coming to the conclusion therefore that the garden did exist in some form but has been totally destroyed by later landscaping.
I have not had chance to view the features you describe behind School Lane, but as soon as I have I will get back to you. By the way, there may be some significance in the lane (Sennicar Lane) which runs down from School Lane to the River Douglas.
"); setSlice("Dutton's Farm", "Damn, I just realised that I would have liked to attend the talk on Dutton's Farm. How was it? Synopsis please...", "Damn, I just realised that I would have liked to attend the talk on Dutton's Farm. How was it? Synopsis please...
", "First of all Ron went over the previous work presented to us when he last came (see newsletter No.58). He then added his latest project which is in the adjacent area - an area where medieval pottery turned up in field walking. The main point about the Dutton's Farm site is that it is an island of find glacial wind-blown sand (the famous Sherdley sand the Pilkingtons used for their glass making). All around it is either the usual boulder clay or bog land, so it would have been an attractively dry area for settlement throughout the ages. The scatter of stones that Ron is finding all over the area is evidence of this activity (the fact that stones just don't occur in wind-blown sand). In this area the activity is mainly Medieval (Ron showed us some of the sherds, part of the large assemblage of pottery which is thought to have been made locally). However there were patches of dark humus material which lay under the stones (therefore older). In Ron's opinion this is probably Dark Age - a possible indication that there has been continual settlement of the site for over 2000 years (from the Iron Age to present - the only gap being between the Medieval period and the current 17th century farmstead).
What got everybody's attention however was the discussion at the end about the Roman activity in the area. As reported last time Roman pottery has been found in concentrations in field walking and Ron has also discovered a Roman track-way but no sign of a settlement. Intriguingly, however, he now has another area where there is a much larger spread of pottery - and strangely enough it isn't on the sandy areas but outside on the boulder clays. Ron would not elaborate at this stage (it's still early days) but he has always been hopeful of finding that elusive Roman farmstead (or I should say Romano-British farmstead - Ron thinks it more likely that the locals where Romanised rather than an influx of ex-legionnaires). Excavations start again this year in September and Ron says the site is open to volunteers - so if anybody fancies having a go Ron can be contacted at Liverpool Museum's Archaeology depatment."); setSlice("Bankes Family", "I stumbled across your website while looking into the Bankes family of Wigan...", "
I stumbled across your website while looking into the Bankes family of Wigan in the hope that I might be able to find a link with them and Sir Joseph Banks the botanist who sailed with Capt. Cook.
Do you know if they were the same family? If you have any information which might help this research I would be very grateful.
I'm sorry I don't have any information about a link with Capt. Cook's botanist but here is a short history of the Bankes family which may help with your research. It was compiled by A G Mitchell of the Billinge Historical Society and was downloaded from their website which you can find at www.billinge-history.co.uk . If you ever do find a link I would be very interest to hear about it.
"); setSlice("Bankes and the Royal Society", "There is a link with Sir Joseph Banks (President of the Royal Society). William Banks who bought Winstanly was brother to an ancestor of Sir Joseph.", "![](\"./images/Q_and_A/banks-portrait.jpg\")
I have found and copied the article on the Bankes family. It was very helpful. Thank you.
There is a link with Sir Joseph Banks (President of the Royal Society). William Banks who bought Winstanly was brother to an ancestor of Sir Joseph .. Richard Bankes of Bank Newton (in Yorkshire?) married Joan Norton and they had at least two children, William and John Bankes ancestor to Joseph.
I expect you already know that the Banks are by marriage connected with the Woodcocks of Wigan.
It has occurred to me that perhaps John Leland, Henry VIII's librarian, could be a Leigh of Lyme, also in the Banks family tree. Do you have any information on John Leland's family?
Thanks very much for this information, it is very interesting. I'm sorry I don't have any information on John Leland - other than he visited Wigan around 1536 and wrote a description of it (see Heritage of Wigan on our website)."); setSlice("Siege of Lathom House", "I have been looking at the 'siege of Lathom House'...", "
Hello, I have been looking at the 'siege of Lathom House' as an ancestor fought there. I found a piece from your society on the web (Newsletter 37), left a number of years ago regarding finds at the site of the original building and plans to do further research. I am interested to know the results of this and also the actual location of the site. I do hope you will be able to help me.", "It was Mark Fletcher of Matrix Archaeology who carried out the excavations on the site of the old Lathom House (he gave the society a talk on the subject in July 2001). I haven't seen the report but I recall they found extensive evidence for the old house lying just under the present building (the 18th century 'West Wing' which was being converted into modern flats at the time). The Grid reference for the site is SD 459 091. Sorry I can't be of more help with this (when I next see Mark I will press him about it)"); setSlice("Dyeworks on Wingates Lane", "I am trying to find out about the old dye works on Wingates Lane.", "
Do you have any details or could you point me in the right direction .....because I am trying to find out about the old dye works on Wingates Lane...it continues on from Leyland Mill Lane just past the hospital (it's a bit of a pet project and am getting dizzy looking on 'tinternet'). ", "I haven't heard of a dye works on Wingates Lane - there was a famous iron foundry/forge at Brock Mill at the end of this lane (which is now a small housing development). The only dye works I know of was at Worthington (about half a mile upstream) at the bottom of Rectory Lane (locally know as the Bleach Works). It stopped production about 7 years ago and is now yet another housing estate. In the nineteenth century there was a water powered paper mill there - but originally it was a corn mill dating from the middle ages. (By the way on the 1849 6-inch OS map, Wingates Lane is marked as Wingale Wood)."); setSlice("DIY Resistivity Equipment", "We need to do some geophys on a site of our own. Any advice on how we could source some equipment, and how to use it?", "
I read on your website that you were able to put together some geophysics equipment. I am a member of a Hampshire based archaeological society, and we need to do some geophys on a site of our own. Any advice on how we could source some equipment, and how to use it? Without spending a fortune, hopefully! ", "You're right we did have a go at making our own resistivity meter which was partially successful (it was a project in a radio spares magazine - see Newsletters 30, 31, 34 and 35). However we abandoned it when we got the chance to buy a professionally built machine. This was a specially commissioned machine by the Council of Independent Archaeologists (a national organisation for amateur societies). A company called TR Systems built them - at a cost of £1000 each (still much cheaper than an industrial one). The new machine is much better than our homemade one as it is more sensitive and has a data logger attached (and doesn't use as many batteries). Unfortunately I think TR Systems have stopped making them at the moment as they are developing other systems. Hampshire is quite a way off otherwise we would come down and do it for you."); setSlice("Burning Wells in Hindley", "Could you please enlighten me to where these were located in Hindley?", "
Could you please enlighten me to where these were located in Hindley? Please also the roman road going through Ince Park as to whereabouts on Liverpool Road in Hindley it crosses and continues its journey. Thanks in anticipation.", "A "Burning Well" is marked on the 6 inch OS map of 1849 next to the Dog Pool brook on the west side of Park Road (see maps). Regarding the Roman Road, as far as we can asses it seemed to run more or less where Holt Street is.
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Regarding the enquiry about a Dye Works on Wingates Lane - you mentioned that there used to be a famous iron foundry at Brock Mill at the end of this lane, which is now occupied by a small housing development. The housing estate is actually built on the site of what was the BLUE PRINTERS factory. It closed down in the late 50's / early 60's and later became the printing works for the Lancashire Evening Post.", "You may be interested to know that there was an article written about the foundry by Bob Blakeman in the December 2006 edition of Past Forward. It mentioned that here, in the mid 18th century, they were making (amongst many other things) screw fasteners on an automatic machine, which is perhaps the earliest record of this activity (you can read the article and my subsequent correspondence with Bob here."); setSlice("Hawkley Hall", "I am looking for information on Hawkley Hall - photos and info if possible....", "
Hi, I am looking for information on Hawkley Hall - photos and info if possible. Why it was demolished etc and what was it used for as well as a home for the Molyneux family.", "
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The Hall was situated on the outskirts of Wigan about a mile and a half south of the town centre. In the 20th century it was owned by a local farmer who farmed the 80 acre estate which extended all the way to the A49. Open cast mining, however, just after WW2 reduced the quality of land in the area and so in the late 60’s, he sold the land to a property developer (the Hall was included on the insistence of the buyer). The Hall was subsequently left to become derelict and in 1971 a fire started by vandals rendered it in a dangerous condition. This caused the council to make the decision to pull it down. The site is now isolated in the middle of a housing estate on the west side of Poolstock Lane.
The first mention of an estate at Hawkley comes from the 14th century when Roger Molyneux, second son of Alan Molyneux of Rainhill, married the daughter of Gilbert Ince of Hawkley in 1374 (Blakeman). The hall at that time was probably a half-timbered structure with a surrounding moat. There is a reference, however, which suggests that this hall survived until the 19th century as an arms house but in a dilapidated condition (Baines).
The stone-built hall that survived until the early 1970’s consisted of a narrow cross-hall with two side wings. It is not certain when this hall was built but suggestions have been made for the 17th century (Miller). Windows are typically Tudor in style with a central transom however the 1609 date stone probably belong to the earlier hall (it is possible that both halls were around at the same time on different sites). The family in the 17th century also owned lands in Pemberton, Wigan, Ince and Standish.
A painting by Arthur Devis depicts the Molyneux family in the mid 18th century and is described as showing the family with the hall in the background. However the build which appears in the centre is pictured on the edge of a lake and looks more like a mill (there is a structure shown on the left side of the picture but is difficult to identify). There was a reference to a mill on the estate in the 18th century (most likely for corn) however its position is unknown.
In 1805 the Revd Bryan William Molyeux died without issue which ended the Molyeux line. In his will, however, he bequeathed the hall to a distant relative, the Revd William Huckenhull of Lymm, with the proviso that he changed his name to Molyneux. Not long afterwards however (in 1840) his son sold the hall to Meyrick Bankes of Winstanley who wanted to exploit the coal reserves on the estate. It is not certain when the hall was sold to the local farmer but it is known that the estate was still in the hands of the Bankes family in 1911 (VCH).
References
1. A Historical Souvenir – Bob Blakeman 1996
2. Historic Houses in Lancashire THE DOUGLAS VALLEY 1300-1770 by Garry Miller
3. Victoria County History (VCH) 'Townships: Pemberton', A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 78-83.
4. Baines’s History of Lancashire. Vol 3 1836